NPoCP?

"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa) 04/03/2015 at 12:49 • Filed to: npocp

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Some of you may know that I work at a buy-here-pay-here used car dealership in the middle of one of many local ghettos. Those of you who don't know that, well, there ya go. One of the cars we have for sale is a *takes deep breath* 2002 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP 40th Anniversary Edition. The asking price? $1000 down payment on $8999 (or thereabouts). The kicker? The engine has less than 10k on it.

The 40th anniversary edition sports power sunroof, power seats, heated seats, chrome wheels, slotted/drilled front discs, fuck-off huge sway bars, slightly lowered suspension, a practically free-flowing exhaust, optimized airbox, and I believe a more aggressive tune. The result is 0-60 in 6.7 seconds, which is fun as hell in something that looks relatively pedestrian (I mean, EVERYONE around here has a fucking Grand Am GT or Grand Prix SE, so the GTP doesn't exactly turn heads). The exhaust makes a wonderful racket, and sounds roughly like what I expect the Murdersofa would if I straight-piped it (seriously, that thing doesn't do much in the way of actually muffling anything) with GLORIOUS afterfire when you let off the gas, the throttle response is pretty decent and the torque is immense. This particular model has the notorious GM-constantly-failing-wheel-speed-sensors so the traction control and ABS don't work, resulting in wheelspin EVERYWHERE due to the light weight and torque.

Oh, and it gets 35mpg highway. No joke. It's only rated at 28 or so, but this is a light car compared to others that get this engine (bonneville and buick park avenue), and considering those are consistently measured at 30mpg highway, I would be inclined to believe the insane fuel economy in the comparatively diminutive Grand Prix.

So what do you think, Oppo? Will this car's practically-new powerplant and orgasmic noises make your day, or will the high price and various minor issues break the bank?

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 12:53

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CP. If they didn't roll back the ODO, it's even worse because engines that sit are engines that won't usually run well.

wunderwagen wants a longer roof > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 12:55

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I was unaware this existed. I want it. Aftermarket sensors to fix that issue and done.

Textured Soy Protein > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 12:55

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Oh helllllllllllllllllllllll no.

(That's my opinion both on this car, and buy-here-pay-here dealers in general.)

Nibbles > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 12:58

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10k on original engine or 10k on replacement? Because that super has more than a few thou on it.

And don' care how new that block is, nine grand is too much for a fifteen year old W.

Textured Soy Protein > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 12:59

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Also, you sound like a used car salesman with your making up of things like a more aggressive tune (which it doesn't have) and 35 mpg because it's lighter than other cars with the same engine (which I highly doubt because the reported average mpg from 2002 Grand Prix GTP owners on fueleconomy.gov is 22.6 mpg).

Justin Hughes > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 13:03

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Sounds like a nice engine in a turd of a car. CP!

Nibbles > Textured Soy Protein 04/03/2015 at 13:03

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I got 33MPG in my L36-equipped (NA 3800 Series II) Impala LS - mostly flat highway, cruise set at 67, AC off. I'm sure someone could probably hypermile an L67 to 35MPG if they really really really tried

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Justin Hughes 04/03/2015 at 13:06

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I honestly was surprised at the interior quality. It's still shit, but for Pontiac it's... okay.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 13:08

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Seriously - a good condition anniversary edition goes for half that. The Pace Car edition coupes go for less than that with under 100k miles.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Textured Soy Protein 04/03/2015 at 13:09

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The aggressive tune thing must have been from the Bonneville GXP. I've been researching Pontiacs a lot and the GTP 40th anniversary is stupid hard to find decent info on, and it all gets mixed in with the SEMA concept, which had stuff like adjustable struts and a few other goodies. Also this particular GTP has a hood scoop which is mentioned in all of the articles I can find on the GTP 40th anniversary, yet I have yet to see a picture of one that has the hood scoop like our has. Most just have heat extractors.

As for fuel economy, my friend has a Park Avenue Ultra and gets 30mpg highway (measured by dividing gallons put in the tank by miles driven since last fillup) consistently, and that's a 4000lb brick of a car. I don't doubt that if you were to cruise in a GTP you would get some pretty serious fuel economy, though I have no idea what the gearing is like. Or the final drive. Oops. I forgot about that.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Nibbles 04/03/2015 at 13:09

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10k on replacement engine, which was put in last year.

B/Xmrrmvr > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 13:09

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FWD with an engine that was notorious for catching fire even after recalls and with one of the most terrible interiors I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing? CP.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Textured Soy Protein 04/03/2015 at 13:09

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That's my opinion on our customers. You'll never meet more... unique people.

Textured Soy Protein > Nibbles 04/03/2015 at 13:10

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Mostly flat highway, cruise, no AC, and no supercharger is a totally different scenario.

As for what people should expect on a regular basis...

But hey, "it gets 35 mpg*" sounds great, doesn't it?

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > wunderwagen wants a longer roof 04/03/2015 at 13:10

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I'd rather have an Impala SS from 2004 or so, but yeah, these are pretty cool.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 04/03/2015 at 13:10

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The engine has 10k on it and was put in the car last year, so it hasn't been sitting.

Firewrx234 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 13:11

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As someone who has owned 2 GTPs I must say crack pipe galore. they are great cars but the engines are bulletproof. Whatever this individual did to blow one of them up scares me that they did it to the 2nd one as well. Also the bigger question is whether the Trans has been rebuilt or strengthened in any way. The transmissions were notorious for blowing up because they were not strong enough for the torque that the s/c 3.8L supplied. Either way, there's no way I'd pay over $4k for any GTP unless it was some specialty car that's not seen rain.

I love the cars but this one scares me for the unknowns and its crazy price tag.

Nibbles > Textured Soy Protein 04/03/2015 at 13:18

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Take your pick

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > B/Xmrrmvr 04/03/2015 at 13:18

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Most terrible interiors? It's shit, but you've never sat in a ford truck have you?

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 13:19

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We could get 37 out of our 3.4 Impala, but that had no power and high gearing.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 13:20

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10k miles on the engine, but how many on the body and trans?

Textured Soy Protein > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 13:20

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Any specs I can find on the '00-'03 Bonneville GXP have the same 240 hp & 280 lb/ft ratings as everything else with the L67 in that era.

There are two problems with your 35 mpg guess:

1. Your friend getting 30 mpg highway in a Park Avenue Ultra is an outlier and not representative of typical L67 fuel economy.

2. A 2002 Park Avenue Ultra weighs 3884 lbs. A 2002 Grand Prix GTP weighs 3559 lbs. Losing 325 lbs of weight isn't going to give a magical 5 mpg improvement.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 04/03/2015 at 13:22

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3.4? No power? Those 3400 DOHC mills were pretty damn decent. Made a good noise, too. Just don't want to ever have to work on one. I was really surprised at how peppy the Grand Am GT is with a 3400 in it. Sound a lot better than a 3800, as well.

Textured Soy Protein > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 04/03/2015 at 13:23

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Not to mention a completely different engine from this car.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 04/03/2015 at 13:23

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150k I think. It's pretty damn crack pipe.

Textured Soy Protein > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 13:23

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Old car + new engine /= suddenly much higher value

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Textured Soy Protein 04/03/2015 at 13:25

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I said Park Avenue Ultra. That's the exact same engine as the GTP. I'm surprised that the EPA has the grand prix getting lower economy than the Impala. I would have expected that to go the other way around.

Textured Soy Protein > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 13:29

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Yes I know the Ultra and GTP have the same engine. Same engine in a car that's 325 lbs lighter isn't going to magically gain 5 mpg.

The Impala number is for an NA Impala hence the higher number. I posted that to show the difference between talking about the NA Impala and supercharged Grand Prix.

Imirrelephant > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 13:29

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While bubbly and not that great, early 2000's Pontiac interiors fill me nostalgia. The leather seats in those cars are actually pretty decent (unless they are worn to hell).

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 13:31

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The trans is a time bomb if it hasn't been rebuilt.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 13:32

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No, the DOHC 3.4 never came in an Impala, this was the OHV 3.4.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Textured Soy Protein 04/03/2015 at 13:33

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Well yes, but my point was it takes a smaller engine in a sister car to achieve that 35.

Textured Soy Protein > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 04/03/2015 at 13:49

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Ok, we're on the same page then.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Textured Soy Protein 04/03/2015 at 13:51

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And that's lightly driving it on the highway, mostly down hill.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 13:56

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That makes me worry even more. What's lurking in the rest of the chassis, and what happened to the engine in its previous car? They haven't made that engine in eight years.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 04/03/2015 at 13:57

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Probably is even if it has.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 04/03/2015 at 14:03

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I know :)

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 14:10

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NP! We Build (Supercharged) Excitement!

B/Xmrrmvr > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 14:40

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I have (F-150s from 1989-2008). They also have one of the worst interiors I've seen.

The big 3 never really got their interior design right until recently (and even that's debatable), but the interiors of the 90s and the 2000s were truly something....

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 15:48

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I used to have a GTP. CP! The car was mediocre at best. I've eked out 30mpg before. Don't forget about the final drive gearing, you will never see better mileage out of one of these compared to a Buick. Had to put 3 transmissions in mine, the last one I built myself with ALL updated parts, then sold the stupid thing. Never again. Not when there are so many better cars out there for far less than they're asking on that one. I've seen Comp G's for less.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 04/03/2015 at 16:26

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Yeah don't those have 4T65E-HDs? I don't understand why Chevy didn't modify the 4t80e for these things with how much torque they're putting out. Differential becomes a ticking time bomb.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 04/03/2015 at 16:27

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Oh, I know nothing about the OHV one.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 16:44

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It was based off the 3.8, but ran off of the life of the driver.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 18:21

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Yeah they do. I don't get it either. Probably cost a lot less to do it this shitty way. Shit wears out in them that you would never expect to wear out, really not a very good design. The differentials are usually fine as long as you're not doing one wheel burn outs.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/03/2015 at 21:04

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nice price!

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 04/04/2015 at 01:19

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The diff was the weak link in the 4t65e that is in the non-supercharged 3800 cars. People would joke about them being made of glass XD

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/04/2015 at 02:14

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Interesting. I've never heard this. Only ever seen one of those diffs fail myself, and that may have been a 60 instead of a 65, and it was abused. But I've seen these things have loads of other issues; solenoids, clutches, stripped splines, grooves worn in the channel plates, obliterated washers and bearings, broken teeth, you name it.